Zhao CHANGPENG: in the middle of cryptocurrency

赵昌鹏创立了coin an，在加密货币领域有着巨大的能量，但他并不是这一领域的典型企业家。他不是一个坚定的信徒或狂热的传教士。

Zhao CHANGPENG, who founded coin an and has great energy in the cryptocurrency world, is not a typical entrepreneur in this field. He is not a firm believer or a fanatical preacher.

他的特点是"缺乏特色"。赵长鹏不高不矮不胖不瘦。他的想法和做事方式是一样的。在连锁产业中，他是中间派。

His characteristic is "lack of characteristic". Zhao CHANGPENG is not tall, not short, not fat, not thin. His ideas and ways of doing things are the same. In the blockchain industry, he is the one in the middle.

他最初被加密货币的自由所吸引。自2014年卖掉在上海的房子并购买比特币以来，他逐渐将大部分个人资产转移到加密货币。据他说，加密货币资产现在占他个人财富的99%。由于"流动性差"，他从未买过房子或其他固定资产。

He was initially attracted by the freedom of cryptocurrency. Since he sold his house in Shanghai and bought bitcoin in 2014, he has gradually transferred most of his personal assets to cryptocurrency. According to him, cryptocurrency assets now account for 99% of his personal wealth. He never bought a house or other fixed assets because of "poor liquidity".

另一方面，珍视自由和流动性的赵长鹏也对政府对加密货币的监管持肯定态度。他说他绝不是一个极端的无政府主义者。他无法想象如果没有政府和警察，社会将如何运转，人们将如何保护自己。

On the other hand, Zhao CHANGPENG, who values freedom and liquidity, also takes a positive view of the government's supervision of cryptocurrency. He said he was by no means an extreme anarchist. He could not imagine how society would work and how people would protect themselves without the government and the police.

赵长鹏创立的钱币安全也是中间产品。

The coin security founded by Zhao CHANGPENG is also an intermediate product.

投币公司不是一家典型的公司。它没有总部，没有办公室。全世界近3000名会员在家工作。投安的一名员工说，他的入境手续都是飞到人力资源所在城市和人力资源的家里办理的。

Coin an is not a typical company. It has no headquarters, no offices. Nearly 3000 members around the world work from home. A coin'an employee said that his entry procedures were all done by flying to the city where HR is located and at HR's home.

但coin并不是一个典型的去中心化社区组织。公司仍有首席执行官赵长鹏、高级管理层职务及汇报关系。它使用了两套任务评估系统，OKR和KPI。在确定OKR时，赵昌鹏会首先确定自己的OKR，其他人会拆除赵昌鹏的OKR——就像大多数使用OKR的互联网公司一样。

But coin an is not a typical decentralized community organization. It still has CEO Zhao CHANGPENG, senior management position and reporting relationship. It uses two sets of task assessment systems, OKR and KPI. When determining OKR, Zhao CHANGPENG will first determine his own OKR, and others will dismantle Zhao CHANGPENG's OKR -- just like most Internet companies that use OKR.

中间路线和矛盾事物的相容性背后，是赵长鹏的实用主义。集中还是分散，坚定还是摇摆——他对这些具有区块链特征的评价维度不太关注。他对很多事情的判断标准是：是否合理、是否有益、是否必要。

Behind the middle line and the compatibility of contradictory things, there is Zhao CHANGPENG's pragmatism. Centralization or decentralization, firmness or swing -- he doesn't pay much attention to these evaluation dimensions with blockchain characteristics. His criteria for many things are: whether it is reasonable, beneficial and necessary.

比如，在社交媒体上，虽然与他"不露面"的本性相反，但赵长鹏非常活跃，因为这有助于他与用户沟通。他在twitter上有260万粉丝，比以太坊创始人维塔利克·巴特林多70万。

For example, on social media, although contrary to his nature of "not showing up", Zhao CHANGPENG is very active because it helps him communicate with users. He has 2.6 million followers on twitter, 700000 more than Ethereum founder vitalik buterin.

为了在分散化金融（以下简称defi）中推广BSc（binance smart chain）的关键布局，赵长鹏有时甚至有意与以太坊进行对接，外界将以太坊视为以太坊的标杆，"BSc比以太坊小，对BSc有利"

In order to promote the key layout of BSc (binance smart chain) in decentralized Finance (hereinafter referred to as defi), Zhao CHANGPENG sometimes even deliberately connects with Ethereum, which is regarded as the benchmark of Ethereum by the outside world" BSC is smaller than Ethereum, which is good for BSC. "

按照合理、务实、实用的标准行事，赵长鹏在区块链和加密货币本身并没有那么执着。2014年，他通过卖房地产、买钱的方式进入这个行业，似乎下定了决心。然而，在2015年至2017年的市场低迷时期，他曾经离开加密货币领域，进入当时流行的文化商品交易行业。他成为一家提供邮政和货币卡（邮票、硬币、电话卡和其他收藏品）交易系统的公司。

Acting according to reasonable, pragmatic and useful standards, Zhao CHANGPENG is not so persistent in blockchain and cryptocurrency itself. In 2014, he entered the industry by selling real estate and buying money, and seemed determined. However, during the market downturn from 2015 to 2017, he once left the field of cryptocurrency and entered the popular cultural goods trading industry at that time. He became a company providing trading system for postal and currency cards (stamps, coins, telephone cards and other collections).

从结果来看，加密货币的不完全稳固性并不影响赵长鹏和钱安在这一领域的成功。赵长鹏认为，加密货币交易所的核心竞争力与以往同类产品没有区别，更好的是服务用户。务实、兼容、多样化的风格可以帮助他们服务于尽可能多的全球用户。

From the results, the incomplete firmness of cryptocurrency does not affect the success of Zhao CHANGPENG and Qian an in this field. Zhao CHANGPENG believes that the core competitiveness of the cryptocurrency exchange is no different from similar products in the past, and it is better to serve users. Pragmatic, compatible and diversified style can help them serve as many global users as possible.

在新一轮加密货币牛市和震荡的背景下，我们与赵长鹏就比特币的市场和价值、币安的业务转型和组织管理、他对行业监管的观察以及他在复杂环境下的自身状况进行了交谈。

In the background of a new round of bull market and shock of cryptocurrency, we talked with Zhao CHANGPENG about the market and value of bitcoin, the business transformation and organization management of coin an, his observation of industry supervision and his own state in the complex environment.

1989年，12岁的赵昌鹏离开中国江苏的出生地，随家人移民加拿大温哥华。许多事情在那时预示着。中学时，赵长鹏担任排球队队长四年。他说他更像是球场上的胶水——他不是最高的，攻击力也不是最强的，他"不是杀球的人"，他负责协调全场。

In 1989, 12-year-old Zhao CHANGPENG left his birthplace in Jiangsu, China and immigrated to Vancouver, Canada with his family. Many things foreshadowed at that time. In middle school, Zhao CHANGPENG was the captain of the volleyball team for four years. He said that he was more like a glue on the court - he was not the tallest, he was not the strongest in attack, he was "not the one who killed the ball", he was responsible for coordinating the whole court.

一

one

"比特币是一种新的技术平台，而不是一种资产"

"Bitcoin is a new technology platform, not an asset"

晚间消息：自4月中旬以来，比特币已从接近65000美元的高位跌至30000美元的低位。您如何看待这种巨大的波动？

Late: since mid April, bitcoin has fallen from a high close to $65000 to as low as $30000. What do you think of this huge Volatility?

赵长鹏：如果市场有大的增长，就会有大的下降。这很正常。我和周围的人都不在乎。

Zhao CHANGPENG: if there is a big increase in the market, there will be a big decrease. It's very normal. I and the people around me didn't care.

晚报：今年2月比特币突破5万美元后，你在twitter上说："比特币5万美元是新的1万美元，如果你现在不买，你会后悔的。"为什么它看起来像一枚特殊的硬币？

Late: after bitcoin broke through $50000 in February this year, you said on twitter, "bitcoin's $50000 is a new $10000. If you don't buy it now, you'll be sorry." Why does it look like a special coin?

赵长鹏：我从来没有在twitter上预测过比特币的价格。但现在这个行业还处于起步阶段。世界上只有1%到2%的人拥有数字货币。从这个角度看，应该有50到100倍的发展空间。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I have never predicted the price of bitcoin on twitter. But now the industry is still in its infancy. Only 1% to 2% of the people in the world have digital currency. From this perspective, there should be 50 to 100 times more room for development.

晚报：一个普遍的观点是，美元的过度发行是去年下半年启动的牛市的一个重要推力。比特币的崛起不是因为它有多好，而是因为外部世界太糟糕了。你认为这次牛市的原因是什么？

Late: a common view is that the over issuance of the US dollar is an important thrust of the bull market launched in the second half of last year. The rise of bitcoin is not because of how good it is, but because the outside world is too bad. What do you think of the reasons for this bull market?

赵长鹏：美国印钞对加密货币的贡献确实很大。去年印刷了42%的美元。持有的美元大幅贬值，因此美国很多机构都开始购买比特币。

Zhao CHANGPENG: US banknote printing really contributes a lot to cryptocurrency. 42% of the U.S. dollars were printed last year. Holding the U.S. dollar is greatly devalued, so many institutions in the United States have begun to buy bitcoin.

行业内也有一些因素。去年的defi（去中心化金融）和今年的NFT（异构代币）[3]非常流行，并且有很多创新。此外，去年比特币开采量减少了一半[4]，新比特币的发行速度也慢了很多。谁也说不清哪一个影响更大。

There are also some factors within the industry. Last year's defi (decentralized Finance) and this year's NFT (heterogeneous token) [3] are quite popular, and there are a lot of innovations. In addition, last year, bitcoin mining was halved [4], and the new bitcoin came out much slower. No one can make it clear which one has a greater impact.

后期：2017年牛市前，比特币占加密货币总市值的80%以上。2018年以后，这个数值开始在30%到70%之间波动，现在略高于40%。你认为比特币的比例下一步会有怎样的变化？

Late: before the bull market in 2017, bitcoin accounted for more than 80% of the total market value of cryptocurrency. After 2018, this value began to fluctuate between 30% and 70%, and now it is slightly more than 40%. How do you think the proportion of bitcoin will change next?

赵长鹏：从长远来看，比特币的比重会下降。比特币是第一种数字货币。它具有网络效应，就像数字货币中的全球储备货币一样。但比特币的创新速度并没有新项目快。迟早会有别的东西侵蚀比特币的份额，但我们还没有看到任何东西。

Zhao CHANGPENG: in the long run, the proportion of bitcoin will decrease. Bitcoin is the first digital currency. It has network effect, just like the global reserve currency in digital currency. But the innovation speed of bitcoin is not as fast as that of new projects. Sooner or later, something else will encroach on bitcoin's share, but we haven't seen anything yet.

迟到：包括以太坊和硬币安自己的BNB？

Late: including Ethereum and coin an's own BNB?

赵长鹏：包括他们。以太坊曾经有机会，因为比特币可以做它能做的一切，它有很多创新，社区非常活跃。但以太坊很快就遇到了性能瓶颈。加密货币的市值很难超过比特币。比特币是最分散的，因为它的创始人不在这里。

Zhao CHANGPENG: including them. Ethereum used to have opportunities, because bitcoin can do everything it can, and it has a lot of innovation, and the community is very active. But Ethereum soon encountered a performance bottleneck. It's hard for cryptocurrency to surpass bitcoin in market value. Bitcoin is the most decentralized because its founder is not here.

后来：比特币的价值很大程度上取决于人们如何定义它。你认为比特币的本质是什么？一种货币，一种资产，还是别的什么？

Later: the value of bitcoin largely depends on how people define it. What do you think is the essence of bitcoin? A currency, an asset, or something else?

赵昌鹏：我认为比特币是一种新技术，而不是什么东西。当互联网刚出现时，人们会认为互联网是另一种交流渠道。我们有电话、收音机、电视，现在有了因特网。但互联网实际上是一个新的技术平台。互联网上将有互联网广播、视频和社交媒体。社交媒体不是传统的。电视和收音机是传统的。所以互联网在具体的应用层面上并不是与它们并行的，互联网是底层的架构。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I think bitcoin is a new technology rather than something. When the Internet first came out, people would think that the Internet is another channel of communication. We have telephone, radio, TV, and now there is the Internet. But the Internet is actually a new technology platform. There will be Internet radio, video and social media on the Internet. Social media is not traditional. TV and radio are traditional. So the Internet is not in parallel with them at the specific application level, the Internet is the underlying architecture.

区块链和比特币也是底层架构。数字货币将有货币、资产、证券、债券和其他各种各样的东西。这是一个新的平台，而不是一项资产。很多人不明白这有多大。当一个新的平台出现时，一切传统的东西都会有一个新的版本，再加上更多传统所没有的东西。

Blockchain and bitcoin are also the underlying architecture. There will be currencies, assets, securities, bonds and all kinds of other things in digital currency. This is a new platform rather than an asset. Many people don't understand how big this is. When a new platform appears, there will be a new version of everything traditional, plus more things that traditional doesn't have.

迟到：但"各种各样的"事情似乎还没有出现。区块链领域没有杀手级应用。为什么？

Late: but "all kinds of" things don't seem to appear yet. There are no killer applications in the field of blockchain. Why?

赵长鹏：首先，整个数字货币行业还是很小的，所以没有流行的杀手级应用。

Zhao CHANGPENG: first, the whole digital currency industry is still very small, so there is no popular killer application.

其次，在加密货币市场上有一些应用做得很好，比如2017年的"首次硬币发行"，我称之为"区块链全球融资"，一个杀手级的应用。以前，企业家们没有全球融资的工具。如果你是中国的小散户投资者，你就不能投资美国早期的项目，比如优步（Uber）和特斯拉（Tesla）。但"IPO"可以，它还在用，当然骗子也不少。最近的NFT是一种新的模式，它允许艺术家或内容创作者更好地实现他们的作品。传统金融不支持这些应用程序。

Second, there are applications that are well done in the cryptocurrency market, such as the "initial coin offering" in 2017, which I call "blockchain global financing", a killer application. Before, entrepreneurs had no tools to finance globally. If you are a small retail investor in China, you can't invest in early American projects, such as Uber and Tesla. But "IPO" can, it is still in use, of course, there are a lot of swindlers. The recent NFT is a new model, which allows artists or content creators to better realize their works. These applications are not supported by traditional finance.

二

two

"做点什么，把它做好。"

"Just do something and do it well."

后来：您是如何从传统金融业过渡到加密货币的？

Later: How did you cross from traditional financial industry to cryptocurrency?

赵长鹏：我可能在2013年中期读过比特币白皮书，了解了这项技术之后，我觉得它可能管用，但是去中心化需要社区。我要看看这个社区是否存在，它是什么样的人。所以在2013年底，我去拉斯维加斯参加了一个峰会。现在包括维塔利克在内的业界领袖都出席了峰会。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I probably read the white paper of bitcoin in the middle of 2013. After understanding this technology, I think it may work, but decentralization needs community. I need to see if this community exists and what kind of people it is. So at the end of 2013, I went to Las Vegas to attend a summit. Now the industry leaders, including vitalik, were at the summit.

去了以后，我发现这些孩子很真诚，很勤奋。当时，为了教我如何使用钱包，一个男人给我转移了一些硬币。得知后，我说我会把硬币转给你。他说不，你可以留着。你可以用这个硬币教下一个人。我看看。大约三百美元几千元，不是很多，但也很多。他们真的不是来骗钱的。他们不是报纸上提到的贩毒头目。他们是一群技术儿童。

After I went there, I found that these children were very sincere and hardworking. At that time, in order to teach me how to use my wallet, a man transferred some coins to me. After learning, I said I would transfer the coins back to you. He said no, you can keep it. You can use this coin to teach the next person. I have a look. It's about three hundred dollars and several thousand yuan, not a lot, but also a lot. They are really not out to cheat money. They are not the drug trafficking boss mentioned in the newspaper. They are a group of technical children.

会后，当我准备离开机场时，我说我要卖掉房子，买比特币，我要辞职，百分之百地加入这个行业。不管怎样，我都能写代码。

After the meeting, when I was ready to leave at the airport, I said that I would sell my house and buy bitcoin, and I would resign and join the industry 100%. No matter what, I could write code.

迟到：对新机会感兴趣，你需要销售吗？

Late: interested in a new opportunity, do you need to sell?

赵长鹏：我当时只有一点钱，所以不想再被分散了。我还年轻，把一切都放在一个地方。我从不告诉别人你们都在，但我可以自己冒险。最坏的情况是两年，比特币零，我回到银行工作。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I just had a little money at that time, so I don't want to be scattered any more. I'm young and put it all in one place. I never tell people you're all in, but I can take the risk myself. The worst case is two years, bitcoin zero, I go back to work in the bank.

迟到：你持有2014年购买的比特币吗？加密货币在那之后不久进入熊市。

Late: did you hold the bitcoin you bought in 2014? Cryptocurrency entered a bear market shortly after that.

赵长鹏：幸好我一直拿着。我记得在我卖掉房子不到一年的时间里，上海的房价翻了一番，比特币也跌到了原值的三分之一，相差6倍。当时，我心里有压力。是每个人都错了，还是我一个人错了？可能是我错了。但我不明白为什么错了，因为我认为这是未来。回过头来看，2001年互联网泡沫破灭时，亚马逊和eBay（包括谷歌）也下跌了98%。每个人都经历过那个阶段。

Zhao CHANGPENG: Fortunately, I have been holding it. I remember that less than a year after I sold my house, the house price in Shanghai doubled, and bitcoin dropped to one third of its original value, which was six times the difference. At that time, there was pressure in my heart. Was everyone wrong, or was I alone wrong? I'm probably the one who's wrong. But I can't understand why it's wrong, because I think it's the future. Looking back, when the Internet bubble burst in 2001, Amazon and eBay, including Google, also fell by 98%. Everybody went through that stage.

"后来"：你当时有没有把区块链比喻成互联网的想法，或者事后总结一下？

"Later": did you have the idea of analogizing blockchain to Internet at that time or sum it up afterwards?

赵长鹏：说实话，我是后来想到的。在当局里人们看不清楚。我当时就在想，会持续多久，五年还是十年？但幸运的是，它持续了两年多。

Zhao CHANGPENG: to tell you the truth, I came up with it later. People can't see clearly in the authorities. I just thought at that time, how long will it last, five or ten years? But fortunately, it lasted more than two years.

稍后：你现在如何分配你的个人资产？你有没有再买房等固定资产？

Later: how do you allocate your personal assets now? Do you have fixed assets such as buying a house again?

赵长鹏：基本上我99%的钱都是加密货币。它应该都在BNB上，只有一小部分是比特币。我现在还没买房子。房子的流动性太差了。

Zhao CHANGPENG: basically 99% of my money is cryptocurrency. It should be all on BNB, and only a small part is bitcoin. I haven't bought a house now. The liquidity of the house is too poor.

迟到：2014年你加入这个行业的时候，你的态度非常坚定。然而，从2015年到2017年，在coin an成立之前，您离开了加密货币行业，并担任bject technology，该公司为邮政货币卡（邮票、硬币、电话卡和其他收藏品）提供交易系统。你为什么半途而废？

Late: when you joined the industry in 2014, your attitude was very firm. However, from 2015 to 2017, before the founding of coin an, you left the cryptocurrency industry and worked as bject technology, which provided a trading system for postal currency cards (stamps, coins, telephone cards and other collections). Why did you do this halfway?

赵长鹏：毕节原本想在日本做一个数字货币兑换，但发现仅仅靠懂技术而不懂日语很难做到。在后面，中国明信片非常受欢迎，所以有人来到门口，问他们是否可以提供它。我们说过如果你愿意的话我们会把它卖了。直到2017年5月，我们都不想成为交易所。

Zhao CHANGPENG: Bijie originally wanted to do a digital currency exchange in Japan, but found it difficult to do it only by understanding technology but not Japanese. In the back, the Chinese postcard was very popular, so someone came to the door and asked if they could provide it. We said we would sell it if you were willing to pay. Until May 2017, we didn't want to be an exchange.

迟到：2017年5月发生了什么，为什么又回来了？

Late: what happened in May 2017 and why did it come back?

赵长鹏：最直接的是我觉得市场的浪潮来了，这是行业需要的，交易平台是我擅长的。

Zhao CHANGPENG: the most direct thing is that I think a wave of market is coming, which is needed in the industry, and the trading platform is what I am good at.

从长远来看，我认为，在人类历史上，只要我们能够在不降低安全性和易用性的前提下，提高一个事物的自由度，文明就取得了巨大进步。我认为在未来几十年里，货币的自由度会越来越高。同时，还可以保持安全性和易用性，甚至更高。这就是硬币想要做的。我们想为这个行业提供一些基础设施服务。

From a long-term perspective, I think that in the history of mankind, whenever we can improve the freedom of a thing without reducing its security and ease of use, civilization has made great progress. I think in the next few decades, the degree of freedom of money will become higher. At the same time, the security and ease of use can be maintained, or even higher. This is what coin an wants to do. We want to provide some infrastructure services for this industry.

晚报：区块链技术之所以能让资金流动更自由、更安全，一个重要原因就是它的去中心化。自2014年开始创业并创建coin an以来，您一直是钱包和交易所等行业的集中公司。为什么不直接做基于区块链网络的去中心化项目呢？

Late: one of the important reasons why blockchain technology can make money flow more freely and safely is its decentralization. Since you started your business in 2014 and founded coin an, you have been a centralized company in industries such as wallets and exchanges. Why don't you directly do the decentralization project based on the blockchain network?

赵昌鹏：我觉得人们需要找到三件事的结合。一是他们知道什么，二是他们喜欢什么，三是这个东西对别人是否有价值。不是每个人都知道芯片，知道如何开采，并且熟悉区块链的数学算法。我的经验一直在交易系统中。对我来说，最合理的是继续做一个交易平台。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I think people need to find a combination of three things. One is what they know, the other is what they like, and the third is whether this thing is valuable to others. Not everyone knows chips, knows how to mine, and is familiar with mathematical algorithm blockchain. My experience has always been in the trading system. The most reasonable thing for me is to continue to be a trading platform.

后期：交易平台也可以去中心化。最近你说，在未来五到十年，分散化的交易所将战胜集中化的交易所。看来你又改变主意了？

Late: trading platforms can also be decentralized. Recently, you said that in the next five to ten years, decentralized exchanges will prevail over centralized exchanges. Looks like you've changed your mind again?

赵长鹏：去中心化交易所发展确实很快，但到目前为止，它们的交易量和安全系数还是有别于集中化交易所，对大多数新手用户来说都有一个门槛。

Zhao CHANGPENG: decentralized exchanges do develop very fast, but up to now, their trading volume and safety factor are still different from those of centralized exchanges, and they have a threshold for most novice users.

当然，你能感觉到水中波浪的方向。Defi确实对主站施加了压力。我对分权的方向比之前更乐观，我认为这是未来。

Of course, you can feel the direction of the waves in the water. Defi does put pressure on the main station. I'm more optimistic about the direction of decentralization than I was earlier, and I think it's the future.

晚报：区块链行业的许多人都有一致的价值观和方向选择。例如，有些人致力于分权，有些人致力于在支付中使用比特币，有些人重视提高效率；你似乎更务实，选择随机应变。有些人会认为这不够坚定。你觉得自己的特点如何？

Late: many people in the blockchain industry have consistent values and direction choices. For example, some people are committed to decentralization, some people are committed to using bitcoin in payment, and some people value improving efficiency; You seem to be more pragmatic and choose to change with the situation. This will be regarded as not firm enough by some people. What do you think of your own characteristics?

赵长鹏：一个行业应该让不同思想、不同特点的人共存。我想不管选择什么，只要为这个行业做点什么，把它做好。

Zhao CHANGPENG: an industry should allow people with different ideas and characteristics to coexist. I think no matter what the choice is, just do something for the industry and do it well.

三

three

"如果2018年继续上涨，就不会有今天的货币安全"

"If it continues to rise in 2018, there will not be today's currency security"

晚：在它成立六个月后，硬币已经成为世界上最大的加密货币交易。你认为投币的核心竞争力是什么？

Late: six months after its establishment, coin an has been the largest cryptocurrency transaction in the world. What do you think is the core competitiveness of coin an?

赵长鹏：还是因为我们一直坚持以用户为核心。这体现在一些长期和短期的利益博弈中，比如货币的选择和产品功能的设计。

Zhao CHANGPENG: it's still because we always insist on taking users as the core. This is reflected in some long-term and short-term interest games, such as the choice of currency and product function design.

我们还将所有交易费用收入的10%投入Safu（用户安全资产基金），以保护用户利益和应对极端情况。

We also put 10% of all transaction fee income into Safu (secure asset fund for users) to protect the interests of users and cope with extreme situations.

"迟到"：现在市场剧烈波动时，货币安全、币基、火币等交易所仍会出现卡、跌、"因流量激增暂停退市货币"等现象。一些人认为，表面上失败的背后是对交易所的操纵。

"Late": now when the market fluctuates violently, currency security, coinbase, fire currency and other exchanges will still be stuck, down, "due to the surge in traffic to suspend the withdrawal of currency" and so on. Some people think that behind the apparent failure is the manipulation of the exchange.

赵长鹏：从目前币安的交易量来看，有很多佣金收入，没有必要操纵什么来赚取短期资金。聪明人保护长期信任。

Zhao CHANGPENG: judging from the current transaction volume of coin an, there is a lot of commission income, and there is no need to manipulate anything to earn short-term money. Smart people protect long-term trust.

迟到：你不缺人也不缺钱。为什么你没有解决停机和卡住的问题？

Late: you are not short of people and money. Why haven't you solved the problems of downtime and stuck?

赵昌鹏：没那么简单。对这个系统不太了解的普通散户经常说，如果你购买更多的服务器，这难道不能解决问题吗？我们已经把钱花在钱能解决的问题上了。

Zhao CHANGPENG: it's not that simple. Ordinary retail investors who don't know much about the system often say that if you buy more servers, won't that solve the problem? We've already spent money on the problems that money can solve.

在上海证券交易所、纽约证券交易所等传统交易所，散户向证券公司下订单，然后证券公司将订单合并到交易所。该交易所只为数百家证券公司提供服务。我们是全世界数以百万计的用户，他们直接访问exchange。我认为我们是人类历史上最大的金融婚介市场。结构压力完全不同。这不能通过并行添加服务器来解决。我们需要做的是把波音838做大十倍，但它仍然是一架飞机，而且它能飞，这是比较困难的。

In traditional exchanges, such as the Shanghai Stock Exchange and the New York Stock Exchange, retail investors give orders to securities companies, and then securities companies combine orders to exchange. The exchange only serves hundreds of securities companies. We are millions of users all over the world who go directly to the exchange. I think we are the largest financial matchmaking market in the history of mankind. The structural pressure is totally different. This can't be solved by adding servers in parallel. What we need to do is to make the Boeing 838 ten times bigger, but it is still a single plane, and it can fly, which is more difficult.

这个阶段的增长完全超出了我们2018年的预期，我们还在做各种优化，但是如果继续上升，可能会遇到一些坎坷。

The growth at this stage is completely beyond our expectation in 2018. We are still doing a variety of optimizations, but if we continue to rise, we may encounter some bumps.

迟到：什么比预期的要多？

Late: what is more than expected?

赵长鹏：主要是用户数量，远远超出预期。2017年，比特币峰值为2万美元，较前段时间的5万美元增长了2.5倍，但活跃用户数增长了20倍。当时，它已经扩大了五十倍，但仍然扛不住。

Zhao CHANGPENG: it's mainly the number of users, which is far more than expected. In 2017, the peak value of bitcoin was US $20000, up 2.5 times from US $50000 some time ago, but the number of active users increased 20 times. At that time, it had expanded by five or ten times, but still could not carry it.

迟到：你提到机构准入是这次牛市的特点。你的机构用户增长如何？我们能观察到中国制度权力的进入吗？

Late: you mentioned that institutional admission is the feature of this bull market. How about the growth of your institutional users? Can we observe the entrance of Chinese institutional power?

赵长鹏：整体机构数据呈指数级增长，尤其是过去半年。在整个市场中，中国机构所占比例很小。美国机构约占市场的80%或90%。另一方面，在中国，散户投资者占80%或90%。在中国，数亿人有自己的账户。

Zhao CHANGPENG: the overall institutional data is growing exponentially, especially in the past six months. In the whole market, Chinese institutions account for a small proportion. American institutions account for about 80% or 90% of the market. In China, on the other hand, retail investors account for 80% or 90%. In China, hundreds of millions of people have their own accounts.

迟到：如何吸引机构用户？

Late: how do you attract institutional users?

赵长鹏：机构交易对API和交易速度的要求与散户完全不同。例如，组织都是由团队运作的，有老板、组长和小团队。每个人都有不同的权限。我们称之为子账户功能。2017年几乎没有交易，我们也没有。现在我们都有了。

Zhao CHANGPENG: the requirements for API and transaction speed of institutional trading are completely different from those of retail investors. For example, organizations are all operated by teams, with boss, team leader and small team. Everyone has different permissions. We call it sub account function. There were few transactions in 2017, and we didn't have them. Now we have them all.

后来：你什么时候开始做这些准备的？

Later: when did you start making these preparations?

赵长鹏：子账号是在2018年底左右，当时是熊市。其实，那时候我们主要是练内功。当时，我们的核心配对比较快，但外围系统不够。2017年，我们的增长太快，跟不上。在那个时候，如果2018年的牛市非常安全，我们可能会失去领先优势，这一点太滞后了。

Zhao CHANGPENG: the sub account number was around the end of 2018, when it was a bear market. In fact, at that time, we were mainly practicing internal skills. At that time, our core matchmaking was relatively fast, but the peripheral system was not enough. In 2017, our growth was too fast to keep up. It is too laggy at that time that if a bull market in 2018 were to be very secure, we might lose our lead.

所以在2018年，我的内部沟通都是关于提高绩效和扩大体系。牛市将至，别担心。我以前亲身经历过熊市，当时我的心理素质非常好。

So in 2018, my internal communication is all about improving performance and expanding the system. The bull market will come, so don't worry. I personally experienced bear market before, and my psychological quality was very good at that time.

晚报：那么2018年初开始的熊市实际上是货币安全的有利外部环境？

Late: so the bear market that started in early 2018 is actually a favorable external environment for currency security?

赵长鹏：是的，如果当时继续上涨，我们就扛不住了。我们可能没有今天的货币。

Zhao CHANGPENG: Yes, if we continue to rise at that time, we will not be able to carry it. We may not have today's currency.

你对未来的增长有什么预测？会提前做什么准备？

Late: what's your forecast for future growth? What preparations will be made in advance?

赵昌鹏：我们根本无法预测未来。不过，我们判断用户数量可能会上升，所以我们至少应该做好扩容的准备。如果不发生，我们会浪费一些钱。这不是什么大问题；但当它发生时，我们不能浪费机会。

Zhao CHANGPENG: we can't predict the future at all. However, we judge that the number of users is likely to rise, so we should at least be ready for capacity expansion. If it doesn't happen, we'll waste some money. It's not a big problem; But when it happens, we can't waste the opportunity.

晚报：现在许多新用户都涌向加密货币市场。他们的风险意识和交易技术可能不太好，但投币安全和火币等交易所很容易增加杠杆，而杠杆很容易赔钱。你如何处理这个问题？

Late: now many new users are flocking to the cryptocurrency market. Their risk awareness and trading technology may not be good, but the exchanges such as coin security and fire coin can easily add leverage, and leverage is easy to lose money. How do you deal with this problem?

赵长鹏：币安应该是所有数字货币交易所中唯一拥有"负责任交易程序"的。我们称之为负责任的交易程序。首先，如果一个散户来玩我们的期货或期权，我们会问他两个问题：第一，你认为他赔钱的可能性有多大？如果他写的不到50%，我们不让他玩，你的心态就会错；第二，如果他赔钱了，他觉得是谁的责任？如果他认为这是别人的责任，这是投币人的责任，那么你就不玩了，你玩点。

Zhao CHANGPENG: coin an should be the only one with "responsible trading program" in all digital currency exchanges. We call it responsible trading program. First, if a retail investor comes to play with our futures or options, we will ask him two questions: first, how likely do you think he will lose money? If he writes less than 50%, we don't let him play, your mentality will be wrong; Second, if he loses money, whose responsibility does he feel? If he thinks it's someone else's responsibility, it's coin an's responsibility, then you don't play, you play spot.

第二，如果一个新的散户投资者亏损到一定程度，我们的系统会告诉他不要再交易，并在48小时内停止交易。我相信我们是唯一阻止用户交易的交易平台。

Second, if a new retail investor loses money to a certain extent, our system will tell him not to trade again and stop him from trading for 48 hours. I believe that we are the only trading platform to prevent users from trading.

迟到：你拦了多少人？停止的代价是什么？

Late: how many people have you stopped? What is the cost of stopping?

赵长鹏：我没有数据。应该有很多人，但不会给我们的收入造成太大损失。因为这种用户，他只会伤害自己，不会帮助我们。受伤后，他还是停了下来，只是早晚不停。我们提前一天让他停下来，他赔钱少了，我们赚的手续费少了几十元，没关系，我们长期留着用户。他学会了如何赚钱，我们会得到更多。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I don't have the data. There should be a lot of people, but it won't cause much loss to our income. Because of this kind of user, he will only hurt himself and will not help us. After the injury, he still stops, just early and late. We asked him to stop one day earlier, he lost less money, we earned dozens of yuan less handling charges, it doesn't matter, we keep long-term users. He learned how to make money, and we'll get more.

晚报：exchange用户特别关心托管在您名下的资产的安全。负责okex交易所钱包密钥的徐明星被调查，导致用户大规模恐慌性逃跑。你怎么保管钱包的钥匙？

Late: exchange users are particularly concerned about the safety of the assets held in trust with you. Xu Mingxing, who is in charge of the secret key of okex exchange's wallet, was investigated, which led to a large-scale panic escape of users. How do you keep the secret key of your wallet?

赵长鹏：币安现在完全采用多重签名机制，已经很久没有依赖一个人了。我们最大的钱包需要15个人中的7个人签名。他们彼此都不知道这些人是谁。此外，只有少数人知道他们都是谁。我和所有对公众开放的人都不在签名名单上。硬币和安的列斯群岛跟我一点关系都没有。如果我想的话我不能偷。

Zhao CHANGPENG: coin an now completely uses the multi signature mechanism, and has not relied on a single person for a long time. Our biggest wallet needs to be signed by seven out of 15 people. They don't know each other who these people are. Besides, only a few people know who all of them are. And I and all the people who are open to the public are not on the signature list. Coins and Antilles have nothing to do with me at all. I can't steal them if I want to.

后来：但是这个机制还是需要在中间进行协调，对吗？有什么风险吗？

Later: but this mechanism still needs to be coordinated in the middle, right? Is there any risk?

赵长鹏：所有的工具。需要处理的任务将在wallet manager的软件中弹出。做运营管理的人不知道谁是钱包的负责人。

Zhao CHANGPENG: all tools. Tasks that need to be processed will pop up in the wallet manager's software. People who do operation management don't know who is in charge of the wallet.

后来：如何确保多重签名列表中的人之间没有连接？

Later: how to ensure that the people in the multi signature list are not connected with each other?

赵长鹏：他们从投币中得到了比较高的待遇。让我们消除他偷窃的意图。再说，一个人偷还不够。他得和八九个人勾结。当他去找出其他人是谁时，很容易泄露出去。有人出事不要紧。软件可以把人转移出去，增加新的人。

Zhao CHANGPENG: they get relatively high treatment from coin an. Let's get rid of his intention to steal. Besides, it's not enough for one person to steal. He has to collude with about eight or nine people. When he goes to find out who the others are, it's very easy to let out. It doesn't matter if someone has an accident. Software can move people out and add new people in.

我们会选择熟悉、稳定、可靠、有家庭和孩子、单身时感觉不太稳定的人。地点分布在世界各地，只要有互联网，但不能全部在一个国家或地区，以防止地震，洪水和网络断开。现在世界上可能只有一个国家没有互联网。

We will choose people who are familiar, stable and reliable, have families and children, and feel less stable when they are single. The location is distributed all over the world, as long as there is Internet, but not all in one country or region, to prevent earthquake, flood and network disconnection. Now there is probably only one country in the world without Internet.

四

four

"你说我模仿奔驰，但我开得比他快10倍"

"You said I copied the Benz, but I drove 10 times faster than him"

后来：除了目前的集中交换，你的新方向是分散金融。总体进展如何？

Later: besides the current centralized exchange, your new direction is decentralized finance. What's the overall progress?

赵长鹏：BSC的日交易量大概是以太坊的四五倍。生态工程有上百个，但BSC启动才9个多月，比我们想象的要快。除了BSC，我们还做DEX（分散交换）。我们还投资了以太坊和博卡生态的许多项目。

Zhao CHANGPENG: the daily trading volume of BSC is about four or five times more than that of Ethereum. There are hundreds of ecological projects, but BSC has only been launched for more than nine months, and it is faster than we thought. In addition to BSC, we are also doing DEX (decentralized exchange). We have also invested in many projects of Ethereum and Boca ecology.

后来：事实上，以太坊也可以做分散金融。例如，规模最大、交易量最大的分散化交易所uniswap就是以太坊生态项目。你为什么不用现成的东西，却在去年9月推出了BSC？

Later: in fact, Ethereum can also do decentralized finance. For example, uniswap, the largest decentralized exchange with the largest trading volume, is Ethereum ecological project. Why didn't you use ready-made things, but launched BSC in September last year?

赵长鹏：让我解释一下。BSC不是我们做的。当我们自己做BNB的时候，我们和社区有很多合作。所以当我们去BSC的时候，一群来自社区的人说他们想建立一个智能合约链来接近以太坊，希望我们能给一笔钱。他们愿意使用BNB作为链上的主要货币，然后链上的任何交易都将使用BNB，这对货币an有利，因为我们是BNB的最大持有者。

Zhao CHANGPENG: let me explain. BSC is not made by us. We had a lot of cooperation with the community when we did BNB ourselves. So when we went to BSC, a group of people from the community came to say that they wanted to build a smart contract chain to get close to Ethereum, hoping that we would give a sum of money. They are willing to use BNB as the main currency of the chain, and then any transaction on the chain will use BNB, which is good for coin an, because we are the largest holders of BNB.

所以我不参与平衡计分卡。这是一个社区项目，但开发商不愿意出现。事实上，我什么都没做，也没有那种能力。

So I'm not involved in BSC. It's a community project, but the developers are not willing to show up. In fact, I didn't do anything, and I didn't have that ability.

晚报：乾安对BNB的集中控股与BSC宣称的分散社区方向有冲突吗？

Late: is there any conflict between Qian An's centralized holding of BNB and BSC's declared direction of decentralized community?

赵长鹏：有两部分。BNB是否非常集中？对。但这是我们从服务中赚取的服务费。当我们第一次发行BNB的时候，我们给团队留下了40%的资金，但是因为一枚硬币很快就达到了盈利点，所以我们从来没有花掉或卖掉这部分硬币，并承诺以后会把它全部销毁。这与其他货币发行机制不同。你可以考虑我们是否过于集中。

Zhao CHANGPENG: there are two parts. Is BNB very concentrated? yes. But it's a service charge we earn from our services. When we first issued BNB, we left 40% for the team, but because coin an soon reached the profit point, we never spent or sold this part of the coin, and promised to destroy it all later. This is different from other currency issuing mechanisms. You can consider whether we are too centralized.

第二，BSC完全去中心化后，价值更大，整个BNB的市场价值更高，吸引用户的网络效应更大。所以在利益驱动方面，我们要去中心化，我们也在做同样的事情。

Second, after the complete decentralization of BSC, the value will be greater, the market value of the whole BNB will be higher, and the network effect of attracting users will be greater. So in terms of interest driven, we want to decentralize, and we are doing the same.

另外，如果有一个集中的组织持有大量资金，也不是坏事。我们不会伤害社区，破坏市场，这需要巨大的成本，对我们没有任何好处。

In addition, if there is a centralized organization holding a lot of money, it's not a bad thing. We won't hurt the community and smash the market, which requires huge costs and doesn't do us any good.

后来：有人认为以太坊是一个比较理想的区块链项目状态。它相对分散，而且它的创始人vitalik没有太多的以太坊。这是BSC想要发展的方向吗？

Later: some people think that Ethereum is a more ideal blockchain project state. It is relatively scattered, and its founder vitalik does not own too much Ethereum. Is this the direction BSC wants to develop?

赵长鹏：这不是我们的理解。也许很多人认为，在这枚硬币里，每个人都有一点公平。然而，如果只有小鱼进来，没有鲸鱼进来，大机构不乐观的原因可能只有一个。

Zhao CHANGPENG: that's not our understanding. Maybe many people think that in this coin, everyone has a little bit of fairness. However, if only small fish come in and no whales come in, there may be only one reason why big institutions are not optimistic.

大约在2017年，vitalik以3000万美元的价格出售了以太坊的一部分，这可能意味着他特别公平，或者说他当时更看重美元。

About 2017, vitalik sold a part of Ethereum for $30 million, which may mean that he was particularly fair, or that he valued the dollar more at that time.

为什么我们不接受美元，我们接受BNB？这意味着我们有信心。

Why don't we take us dollars, we take BNB? It means we have confidence.

"后来"：外界认为BSC是以太坊的标杆。你怎么看这两个人之间的竞争？

"Later": the outside world thinks that BSC is the benchmark of Ethereum. What do you think of the competition between the two?

赵长鹏：我觉得BSC和以太坊没有竞争力。现在以太坊和BSC不一样了。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I don't think BSC is competitive with Ethereum. Now Ethereum is not the same as BSC.

有些人更喜欢以太坊，因为vitalik花费更少，而且更分散。但是他们的服务费很贵。老实说，它很贵。转帐要10美元，使用复杂的合同要几百美元。除非你一次做一百万美元的交易，否则你不能付佣金。

Some people prefer Ethereum because vitalik takes less money and is more decentralized. But their service charge is quite expensive. To be honest, it is very expensive. It costs 10 dollars to transfer an account, and hundreds of dollars to use a complicated contract. You can't pay the Commission unless you do a million dollar deal at a time.

在东南亚、印度和非洲，金字塔底部有许多用户。他们有很多。我们为他们提供了更廉价的网络，让更多的人能够使用和进入区块链。

In Southeast Asia, India and Africa, there are many users at the bottom of the pyramid. They have a large number. We provide them with a cheaper network to enable more people to use and enter the blockchain.

BSC兴起后，以太坊的交易量没有减少，但不再增长。这是因为它遇到了技术瓶颈。网络的最大承载能力是每秒15到20个事务。我们得到更多是因为我们还没有达到最高点。所以没有竞争，只是我们可以为他们现在不能服务的用户服务。

After the rise of BSC, the transaction volume of Ethereum has not decreased, but it is no longer growing. This is because it has encountered a technical bottleneck. The maximum carrying capacity of the network is 15 to 20 transactions per second. We're getting more because we haven't hit the ceiling yet. So there's no competition, it's just that we can serve the users they can't serve now.

迟到：以太坊社区不能允许技术重新发展吗？

Late: can't the Ethereum community allow technology to re evolve?

赵长鹏：当然可以，但需要时间。平衡计分卡的定位不同于平衡计分卡。它必须能够同步数百万本书，每秒处理数百万份订单。这个技术门槛相当高，几年内解决起来相当困难。

Zhao CHANGPENG: sure, but it will take time. The positioning of BSC is different from that of BSC. It has to be able to synchronize millions of books and process millions of orders every second. This technical threshold is quite high, and it is quite difficult to solve in a few years.

最近，我觉得vitalik的推特少了。他应该关门。我非常希望他能解决这个问题，让整个行业做大。

Recently, I think vitalik tweets less. He should be closed. I very much hope that he can solve this problem, so that the whole industry will become bigger.

迟到：BSC比以太坊更快更便宜，因为同步账本的节点更少，对吧？

Late: BSC is faster and cheaper than Ethereum because there are fewer nodes to synchronize the ledger, right?

赵昌鹏：一方面我们有21个节点。另外，我们的节点比较大，机器性能比较高，在架构上也做了一些改动。

Zhao CHANGPENG: on the one hand, we have 21 nodes. In addition, our nodes are relatively large, the machine performance is relatively high, and some changes have been made in the architecture.

很多人说BSC没有创新，只是复制了以太坊。事实上，几十倍或几百倍的性能提升是一种创新。你说我模仿奔驰，但我开得比它快十倍。这是创新吗？

Many people say that BSC has no innovation, just copied Ethereum. In fact, the performance improvement of dozens or hundreds of times is an innovation. You said I copied Mercedes Benz, but I drove ten times faster than it. Is that an innovation?

五

five

权力下放是灰色的，不是黑白的

"Decentralization is grayscale, not black and white"

后期：最近，各国政府对加密货币发表了一些不同的言论——有些政府对加密货币非常开放；有些政府很严格；此外，政府正在将加密货币纳入现有的监管体系。例如，最近有报道称，货币监理署（OCC）、美联储和联邦存款保险公司正在考虑设立一个加密货币监管"跨部门小组"。您认为不同国家的态度将如何影响全球区块链产业格局？

Late: Recently, governments of various countries have made some different statements on cryptocurrency - some governments are very open to cryptocurrency; Some governments are strict; In addition, the government is incorporating cryptocurrency into the existing regulatory system. For example, it has been reported recently that the office of the Comptroller of currency (OCC), the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Company are considering setting up an "inter departmental team" for cryptocurrency regulation. How do you think the attitudes of different countries will affect the global blockchain industry pattern?

赵昌鹏：对不起，我不会公开评论具体的监管机构及其政策，但投币安必须积极与全球监管机构沟通。目前，各国的规定各不相同，这是好事。我们可以看到哪些条款更有利于发展，可以有多种参考。

Zhao CHANGPENG: sorry, I won't comment on specific regulators and their policies publicly, but coin an must be actively communicating with global regulators. At present, the provisions of each country are different, which is a good thing. We can see which provisions are more conducive to development and can have multiple references.

晚报：从你们的接触来看，各国的共同关注点是什么？政府的共同想法和看法是什么？

Late: from your contacts, what are the common concerns of all countries? What are the common ideas and perceptions of the government?

赵长鹏：两三年前我们去沟通的时候，都问这个东西是不是恐怖分子用的。现在这么说是可耻的。似乎没有常识。现在他们更关心的是如何防止洗钱和犯罪。事实上，区块链上的数据是透明的，这使得分析和跟踪更容易。一些地方监管机构正在推动这一进程。他们突然明白区块链和加密货币不会让你更失控，而是让你更小心地控制。

Zhao CHANGPENG: when we went to communicate two or three years ago, we all asked if this thing was used by terrorists. It would be shameful to say that now. It seems that there is no common sense. Now they are more concerned about how to prevent money laundering and crime. In fact, the data on the blockchain is transparent, which makes it easier to analyze and track. Some local regulators are pushing this thing instead. They suddenly understand that blockchain and cryptocurrency do not make you more out of control, but let you control more carefully.

晚报：政府的合规要求将如何影响加密货币？自由被认为是加密货币的一大新价值。

Late: how will the government's compliance demands affect cryptocurrency? Freedom is considered to be a major new value of cryptocurrency.

赵长鹏：自由和顺从之间有一定的关系，但没有冲突。

Zhao CHANGPENG: there is a certain relationship between freedom and compliance, but there is no conflict.

我认为合规仍然非常重要。区块链和数字货币行业有一群人非常自由。他们想在没有政府和警察的情况下独立生活。我不认为人类文明能达到这样的水平。在一个没有政府和警察的社会里，每个人如何保护自己，雇佣私人保安？

I think compliance is still very important. There are a group of people in the blockchain and digital currency industry who are extremely liberal. They want to live on their own without the government or the police. I don't think human civilization can reach that level. In a society without government and police, how can everyone protect themselves and hire private security?

我们还需要一些规则。说白了，我们还需要一些监督。

We still need some rules. To put it bluntly, we still need some supervision.

然而，等到所有规则都制定出来之后再开始这个行业可能是不对的，因为规则是在一段时间之后制定出来的。监督需要案例。在一个还没有这样做的行业里，它告诉你你可以也不能这样做。这个行业不可能发展。

However, it may not be right to wait until all the rules have been worked out before starting this industry, because the rules are worked out after a period of time. Supervision needs cases. In an industry that hasn't yet, it tells you that you can and can't do this. It's impossible for the industry to develop.

后来：哪种类型的政府在加密货币方面更为活跃，这与国家的规模或经济类型有关？

Later: which type of government is more active in cryptocurrency, which is related to the size of the country or the type of economy?

赵昌鹏：我个人觉得几年前，它还是一个小国，因为大国比较复杂。中国和美国是大国。如果规则不够详细，很多人会利用它们。但在行业之初，你很难做出详细的决定。但以百慕大为例，全国有7万人，这与上海的一个社区很相似。他不需要规则。他一次只能看一个病例。小国也不需要保护自己的货币。他们不太在乎电击。相反，他们认为这可以帮助他们在金融技术等新领域取得领先。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I personally feel that a few years ago, it was a small country, because big countries were more complicated. China and the United States are big countries. If the rules are not detailed enough, many people will take advantage of them. But at the beginning of the industry, it's hard for you to make a detailed decision. But Bermuda, for example, has 70000 people in the whole country, which is similar to a community in Shanghai. He doesn't need regulations. He can see one case at a time. And small countries don't need to protect their currencies. They don't care much about shocks. Instead, they think it can help them lead in new fields, such as financial technology.

现在情况正好相反。几个大国正在竞争。如果中国希望人民币成为全球的基础货币，你可以发送一个中央银行的数字货币，这可能是非常有帮助的接受。

Now it's a bit of the reverse. Several big countries are competing. If China wants RMB to become the global base currency, you can send a central bank digital currency, which may be very helpful to be accepted.

晚报：你认为央行发行的数字货币是真正的区块链应用吗？

Late: do you think the digital currency issued by central banks is a real blockchain application?

赵长鹏：这里很微妙。目前，大多数央行发行的第一版数字货币相对集中。它有一个发行者，它可以发行额外的发行，控制整个网络，并拒绝一些交易。它确实使用区块链技术，但它的大多数节点都不是公共的。你说它是区块链，你说它不是，它不是。但我不认为这是一个太多的定义。去中心化本身是灰色的，而不是黑白的。比如说你特别分散，但是手续费特别贵，不太好用。有非常详细的权衡。

Zhao CHANGPENG: it's very subtle here. At present, the first version of digital currency issued by most central banks is relatively centralized. It has an issuer, which can issue additional issues, control the whole network, and reject some transactions. It does use blockchain technology, but most of its nodes are not public. You say it's a blockchain, and you say it's not, and it's not. But I don't think it's too much of a definition. Decentralization itself is grayscale, not black and white. For example, you are particularly decentralized, but the handling charge is particularly expensive, which is not so easy to use. There are very detailed trade-offs.

最后，这取决于它是否安全、易用和足够免费。如果他们是高，他们将被许多人使用；如果低，就很难用，但用起来太难了。

Finally, it depends on whether it is safe, easy to use and free enough. If they are high, they will be used by many people; If it's low, it's hard to use it, but it's too hard to use it.

晚报：如果没有政府的支持，央行的数字货币将对其他数字货币产生什么影响？

Late: what impact will the central bank's digital currency have on other digital currencies without government endorsement?

赵长鹏：目前这两种制度相互影响不大。不过，如果将来有机会相互兼容，应该会引起神奇的反应。

Zhao CHANGPENG: at present, these two systems have little influence on each other. However, if there are opportunities for mutual compatibility in the future, it should lead to magical reactions.

六

six

"我不是杀球的人。"

"I'm not the one who killed the ball."

"迟到"：投安没有总部，所有员工都在家工作。你如何保证它的运作？

"Late": coin an has no headquarters, and all employees work at home. How do you guarantee its operation?

赵长鹏：我们现在只有不到3000人，分布在全球60多个国家和地区。每天都会有各种办公软件远程协作，如googledocs、googlemeet等。

Zhao CHANGPENG: we now have less than 3000 people, distributed in more than 60 countries and regions around the world. Daily will be a variety of office software remote collaboration, such as Google Docs, Google meet, etc.

迟到：会有人要求用数字货币支付工资吗？

Late: will anyone ask for digital currency to pay wages?

赵长鹏：最近。因为BNB今年涨了很多。

Zhao CHANGPENG: more recently. Because BNB has risen a lot this year.

后来：你怎么交税？

Later: how do you pay your taxes?

赵长鹏：每个人都应该缴纳自己的个人所得税，然后所有的公司（钱安在很多国家有不同的注册实体）都需要缴纳公司注册地的税。如果你是一个社区，你不必纳税。以太坊社区没有纳税的概念，但公司有纳税的概念。

Zhao CHANGPENG: everyone should pay their own personal income tax, and then all companies (coin an has different registered entities in many countries) need to pay the tax of the place where the company is registered. If you are a community, you don't have to pay taxes. Ethereum community doesn't have the concept of paying taxes, but the company does.

"后来"：当你描述聊钱的时候，你用了"公司"这个词，所以你还是一个公司？

"Later": when you describe chatting about money, you use the word "company", so you are still a company?

赵长鹏：基本上，我们内部从不使用"公司"这个词。我只是在和你聊天时用这个词，因为它更容易理解。我们在内部使用"组织"。我们通常不使用"雇员"这个词作为团队成员。

Zhao CHANGPENG: basically, we never use the word "company" internally. I just use this word when I chat with you, because it's easier to understand. We use "organization" internally. We don't usually use the word "employee" as a team member.

该公司的许多传统硬币都没有。我们不需要总部和办公室，也不需要在什么地方注册。但我们可以让一群人一起做事。我们之间有信任和回报。

Many of the company's traditional coins are not available. We don't need headquarters and offices, we don't need to register somewhere. But we can get a group of people to do things together. There is trust and reward between us.

"迟到"：据我们所知，coin-an同时使用OKR和KPI，这是集权公司最常用的管理方法。

"Late": as far as we know, coin an is using OKR and KPI at the same time, which is the most commonly used management method in centralized companies.

赵长鹏：有目标并不意味着集中。

Zhao CHANGPENG: having goals does not mean centralization.

迟到：你的角色是如何随着硬币的发展而改变的？

Late: how has your role changed with the development of coin an?

赵长鹏：现在我自己做的事情不多，效率也很低。例如，在过去，我有时被要求批准营销活动，但现在我不必干预低于300万美元的市场支出。

Zhao CHANGPENG: now I don't do many things by myself, and the efficiency is very low. For example, in the past, I was sometimes asked to approve marketing activities, but now I don't have to intervene in the market spending below $3 million.

现在我在投安最大的价值就是团结团队，吸引强人，引进外部精英。所以最近我打了一整天电话，花了很多时间聊天。

Now my biggest value in coin'an is to unite the team, attract the strong people and bring in the external elites. So recently I've been on the phone all day and spending a lot of time chatting.

迟到：你也花了很多时间在社交媒体上，你也发了很多微博。

Late: you also spend a lot of time on social media, and you tweet a lot.

赵长鹏：Twitter是我与社区互动的工具。当我在twitter上发言时，它将帮助我们做一些宣传。这也会帮助我了解社区的抱怨或情绪。

Zhao CHANGPENG: Twitter is a tool for me to interact with the community. When I talk on twitter, it will help us to do some promotion. It will also help me understand the complaints or emotions of the community.

其实我不喜欢在公共场合露面，但为了推广BNB和BSC，有时候我会联系以太坊的人，故意把他们混在一起。这种把戏也可以用。他们骂回去未必是坏事。他们互相责骂。当BSC比以太坊小的时候，它对我们有好处。

In fact, I don't like to appear in public, but in order to promote BNB and BSC, sometimes I will contact Ethereum people and deliberately mix them up. This kind of trick can also be used. It's not necessarily a bad thing for them to scold back. They scold each other around. When BSC was smaller than Ethereum, it was good for us.

迟到：你对做什么和怎么做的判断似乎是基于理性和利益。如果你认为这是好的，你会做的。

Late: your judgment on what to do and how to do it seems to be based on rationality and interests. If you think it is good, you will do it.

赵昌鹏：我有几个职责：我带领一个团队把工作做好，把整个事情做大。这不一定是一种责任。这是我的使命。我活着就是为了做点什么。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I have several responsibilities: I lead a team to do a good job and make the whole thing bigger. It's not necessarily a responsibility. It's my mission. I live to do something.

虽然我不喜欢每一份工作，但我特别喜欢整体的使命感。基于这种考虑，我可以在一定程度上抽象自己。我可以做我该做的事。我很平静，也不是特别兴奋或悲伤。

Although I don't like every job subdivided, I especially like the overall sense of mission. Based on this consideration, I can abstract myself to a certain extent. I can do whatever I should do. I am very calm, and I am not particularly excited or sad.

迟到：这种平静的状态是怎么形成的？

Late: How did this state of calm come into being?

赵长鹏：从小就是这样。我的性格一直很稳定。我不知道如何形成它。我从来没有对任何人吼叫过，包括硬币被偷或丢的时候。

Zhao CHANGPENG: it's like this since I was a child. My character has been very stable. I don't know how to form it. I've never yelled at anyone, including when a coin was stolen or lost.

后来：在你建立硬币之前，你改变了位置。你在江苏呆到12岁。然后你和家人去了温哥华，在东京和纽约工作，在上海创业。这次长期移民对你有什么影响？

Later: before you founded coin an, you changed places. You stayed in Jiangsu until you were 12 years old. Then you went to Vancouver with your family, worked in Tokyo and New York, and started a business in Shanghai. What's the impact of this long-term migration on you?

赵昌鹏：我喜欢把很多不同的文化融合在一起，这对硬币变得更加全球化非常有帮助。

Zhao CHANGPENG: I like a lot of different cultures mixed together, which is very helpful for coin an to be more global.

我首先被比特币吸引，这也与此有关。当我在东京工作后去纽约的时候，我发现转账很麻烦，也很贵。比特币没有这个问题。我很容易理解，自由度更高，成本更低。

I was attracted to bitcoin in the first place, which is also related to this. When I went to New York after working in Tokyo, I found it very troublesome and expensive to transfer money. Bitcoin doesn't have this problem. It's easy for me to understand that the degree of freedom is higher and the cost is lower.

"迟到"：你去过哪里，这对你的性格和思想有很大影响？

"Late": where have you been, which has a great influence on your character and thoughts?

赵昌鹏：我最重要的青春期是在加拿大。加拿大是一个移民国家，有各种国籍的人。其实，从大陆出去的孩子通常都是和大陆的孩子一起玩。我是个例外。我在中学打了五年排球，当了四年校队队长。校队里有各种各样的人。我有好的白人朋友，韩国朋友，印度朋友和黑人朋友。我的一些中国朋友抱怨种族歧视，但我从来没有感觉到。

Zhao CHANGPENG: my most important adolescence was in Canada. Canada is a country of immigrants, with people of various nationalities and nationalities. In fact, the children who went out from the mainland usually played with the children from the mainland. I was an exception. I had been playing volleyball for five years in middle school, and I was the captain of the school team for four years. There are all kinds of people in the school team. I have good white friends, Korean friends, Indian friends and black friends. Some of my Chinese friends complain about racial discrimination, but I never feel it.

迟到：你以前在球场上的风格是什么？竞争激烈，犀利，还是和大家一起玩？

Late: what was your style on the court before? Competitive, sharp, or with everyone to play together?

赵长鹏：其实排球队长是一个概念黏合剂。他通常是一个制定者，负责整个领域的组织和协调，不一定是最有进取心的人。我们队里有几个人比我高，比我强壮，比我跳得高，还凶狠地把球击死。不是我杀了球。

Zhao CHANGPENG: in fact, volleyball captain is a concept of adhesive. He is usually a setter, responsible for the organization and coordination of the whole field, not necessarily the most aggressive person. There are several people in our team who are taller than me, who are stronger than me, who jump higher than me, and who kill the ball fiercely. I'm not the one who killed the ball.

-鳍-

- FIN -

[1] coin an的日现货交易额接近300亿美元，是一个半月前上市的coinbase的5倍多。coinbase目前的市值接近500亿美元。按照这个计算，一枚硬币的估值应该远远超过1000亿美元。

[1] The daily spot trading volume of coin an is close to $30 billion, which is more than five times that of coinbase, which was listed a month and a half ago. The current market value of coinbase is close to US $50 billion. According to this calculation, the valuation of coin an should have far exceeded US $100 billion.

[2] 去中心化金融是一种基于去中心化区块链网络的金融应用，如去中心化交换、去中心化借贷等。分散金融的安全和信用不是由一个机构来保证的，而是由智能合约和社区机制来保证的。

[2] Defi, decentralized finance, decentralized finance is a financial application based on decentralized blockchain network, such as decentralized exchange, decentralized lending and so on. The security and credit of decentralized finance are not guaranteed by one institution, but by smart contract and community mechanism.

[3] NFT是不可替代的代币，是一种不可分割、不可替代的数字货币，可以与绘画、音乐等内容绑定。目前，它主要用于数字资产的交易。

[3] NFT, non fungible token, is an indivisible and irreplaceable digital currency, which can be bound with paintings, music and other content. At present, it is used in the transaction of digital assets.

[4] 根据比特币发明者中本聪（Nakamoto Tsung）的设计，每四年挖掘一个区块的比特币数量就会减半，这意味着相同计算能力的回报率将降低50%。

[4] According to the design of the inventor of bitcoin, Nakamoto Tsung, the number of bitcoins dug up in a single block is halved every four years, which means that the return on the same computing power will be reduced by 50%.

Link：https://new.qq.com/omn/20210531/20210531A0AQXB00.html

update time：2021-05-31 18:56:41